- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Industrial Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a venture, together with good vitality administration, will help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging presents month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, with the intention to tackle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like operating a site or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) depend upon a stack, which is a hip manner of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others could depend upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it methods which might be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising subject equivalent to EV charging infrastructure, it could be onerous for potential prospects to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is massive, and the relationships amongst them will be complicated—just like the listing of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some corporations focus on one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the perfect course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different corporations for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Industrial Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some ideas for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of prospects does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal prospects are transit authorities, college districts and fleets, equivalent to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which might be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as properly.
The issue on this business is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging in the present day—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve obtained what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You have been previously Chief Industrial Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about loads. I for one thought it was an awesome firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, a little bit bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had loads of capital that obtained burned by very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t surrender on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery methods, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had the perfect battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the perfect battery know-how. There are loads of corporations that may use their battery methods and have loads of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are loads of items to the charging puzzle. You have got your individual proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} corporations. And to us, it’s a buyer’s selection. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options based mostly on the facility ranges that they want. Once you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually essential that folks overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you must keep the chargers?” Effectively, that you must keep your automotive, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece we’ve, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. When you’ve got a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your telephone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even realize it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. In case you choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different telephone calls. That’s what prospects are pissed off with. One telephone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, keep it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re on the lookout for, and that’s what we do.
Certainly one of our unique buyers was an organization known as Amazon, they usually demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide prospects. You could possibly ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” they usually’d say it’s 99.7. They are going to let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that loads of the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen corporations and organizations concerned with a venture.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the top. We do accomplice with sure prospects or sure corporations. For engineering, we would accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I obtained to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their fingers. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer they usually say, “We’ve obtained three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to take a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep methods. With us, it’s all on one display screen. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see all the things in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I obtained to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their fingers.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are among the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “You want to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, massive, massive corporations, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re most likely 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for a protracted, very long time, so that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you’ve gotten Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, if you happen to take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We obtained 100 vans. We’ve to cost all of them. We’ve obtained one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’ll instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s if you hear all people busting out laughing behind the room.
Effectively, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. We do loads of modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve on the depot.” We mannequin for them the dimensions charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of night time at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but in addition work with corporations like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking thousands and thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of. That’s most likely the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot aspect.
If we hear a buyer say, “Effectively, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing loads of proper now with prospects that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping all the things out—rip and change. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses below one roof. They knew from the start they have been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes have been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every part within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous essential.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Work with corporations like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We obtained a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as typical.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they have been considering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we’ve to cope with a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which might be going electrical that don’t must. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Effectively, in the present day, on an electrical bus, you may go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like an everyday fueling station. They refill at night time, they usually run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is absolutely enticing to loads of fleet prospects.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some prospects have loads of idle time. Some prospects are placing loads of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as properly. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, they usually say, “We don’t want loads of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your entire day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from someone in Kansas that is likely to be operating a great distance. So, we wish to give these choices to prospects and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from among the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it suits with loads of fleet prospects as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is absolutely enticing—you don’t must get right into a Stage 3, which will be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we’ve them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger aspect, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, if you see our label on it, you must stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s someone else’s. We do this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re glad.
The standard questions on traits
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s loads of corporations, and a few them lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, college bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That signifies that that charger needs to be in-built the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of corporations. Just lately, you most likely noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We expect that’s a very good factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger corporations? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we want the fitting variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep aspect. However I believe consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I adore it as a result of it’s perhaps half the dimensions of a van, and it suits within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, they usually can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking over house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high charge, nevertheless it means that you can cut up that up. Is that one thing you may’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you may put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some industrial purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was certainly one of our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, nevertheless it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually needs it, they usually need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Residing right here in Florida, if we’ve a storm and the electrical energy goes down, properly, I’ve obtained an influence station proper right here—we’ve obtained 1,000 college buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply must have the aptitude to tug it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless assume it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a industrial software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
